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“When you add covers and no-till, the benefits and positive changes — they’re not going to happen overnight. But when you get there, you’ll be glad you’re there.”
— Doug Fifer, No-Tiller, Mount Solon, Va.
For this episode of the Cover Crop Strategies Podcast, brought to you by Sound Agriculture, listen to a conversation with Doug Fifer, Virginia no-tiller and president of the Virginia No-Till Alliance (VANTAGE).
Fifer reflects on how his soil has changed for the better since implementing cover crops and no-till into his operation back in 2011 and what types of cover crop trials he plans to experiment with during the upcoming 2025 growing season.
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Full Transcript
Mackane Vogel:Welcome to the Cover Crop Strategies Podcast, brought to you by Sound Agriculture. I'm Mackane Vogel, Associate Editor of Cover Crop Strategies. In today's episode, listen to a conversation with Doug Fifer, Virginia no-tiller and President of the Virginia No-Till Alliance Vantage. Fifer reflects on how his soil has changed for the better since implementing cover crops and no-till into his operation back in 2011, and what types of cover crop trials he plans to experiment with during the upcoming 2025 growing season.
Doug Fifer:Again, I'm Doug Fifer. I farm here in the Shenandoah Valley part of Virginia, the western side of Virginia. I grow poultry, turkeys for Cargill and then mainly a lot of crops, some cropping, row cropping, corn, soybeans, barley, wheat, a little bit of orchard grass, hay, do some custom harvesting also. Then I've gotten into serving now current President of Virginia No-Till Alliance and been into no-till regenerative agriculture since 2011.
Mackane Vogel:Awesome. Well, we're going to kind of dive into a lot of those separate things you just mentioned throughout this episode, but I'd like to start the episode out the same way we do with all our guests, which is just asking you to kind of tell us what I like to call your ag origin story.
Doug Fifer:Well, I grew up farming all my life. I didn't know my great grandfather, but he farmed just down the river. I'm on a river here, just down the river about two miles. Then my grandfather, I guess, there wasn't enough room for all the children there, so he bought a farm just on the opposite side of the river. It's one farm between us and where my dad grew up, so my grandfather always farmed. He had a cow calf operation, some hogs, some chickens, just kind of a small general farm.
Then my dad was raised there and then like I say, it was two other brothers. He came to here and found this part of the farm that we're on now it's not a century farm, but he bought a track here two months before I was born in 1961, and I've since been able to add one complete farm and a part of another one to it in my farming career. I came from my grandfather, they plowed, and my dad, that's what he did and plowed and I did that until I attended this no-till conference in 2011 and it was kind of geared to me and set me on fire and to do this and I can't learn enough of no-till regenerative agriculture. That's kind of where I shifted my gear in 2011.
Mackane Vogel:What do you remember about that conference in 2011? Where was it, and was there any one speaker or anybody that really kind of spoke to you that made you want to change your mind or was it something you were kind of thinking about ahead of time going in? Walk us through that decision.
Doug Fifer:This is our 16th year in, so that would've been about five, six years into the Virginia No-Till Alliance existence, and I had seen the invites to that for several years, just hadn't gone, but something just led me to go that year and it was geared just perfect to my farm and I just had a desire. I guess I'd read an article in a progressive farming magazine. It wasn't related to maybe cover costs, but it just said you can't keep doing the same thing expecting different results. I felt like that's where we was at and I thought in the way my dad farmed, that's just the way we did it. When I attended that conference, I cannot remember the speaker. I'd have to look back and I don't know why, but I remember it. It was like it was speaking to me directly almost. I can remember that very well.
Just it was kind of speaking to using cover crops and regenerative ag and the system that I'm doing row cropping and it just lit a fire to me that I just can't learn enough. I read books and we don't have the mentors that we have today, like myself, I'm mentoring quite a few young guys just to tell them what I know, don't know it all. They'll never know it all. I don't think on that kind of regenerative bag, but I want to teach them what I do know and have seen on my farm, but I've just seen great leaps and bounds that I've made with my soil health and different things throughout those years into my farm 15 years now.
Mackane Vogel:Awesome. Yeah, I think the mentorship, and one of the things that's so cool about these types of events and conferences is not just the speakers but kind of the mingling you get to do with the other attendees and balancing ideas off each other in some of the smaller discussions is such a helpful thing for so many growers. It's great to have events like that and great to have organizations like the one you're a part of to keep those sorts of events going for other farmers. What do you remember about, so going back to your farm with that knowledge and wanting to switch to no-till and become regenerative, how did it go initially and how long did it take you to sort of feel like you were comfortable with that new system?
Doug Fifer:Well, I can remember telling folks now that I meet and try to mentor in different things. I felt like I came home from that conference and I was just excited and wanted to do something and I stood out in the middle of my field and I just stood there looking in circles, now what? We just didn't have as many. I mean there I kind of depended on my local extension agent because he was kind of the spearhead of Vantage at that time and still is with us. He's our executive secretary now, but it depended on him. Then I just started finding books and online, just any research I could read about cover crops and soil health and kind of self-taught in a way for a while, and then when I'd get to rub elbows with other people because I just attended some conferences and kind of learn on my own and worked with my local extension agent and we tried.
It just felt like I was crawling. We just was slow. I tried some different legumes and I'm shelling corn and beans late October, early November. Well, the success of them is a little challenging that time of year. I've learned to do better and I'm still working on another thing this year that I'm going to hopefully make it even better. As I got into the No-Till Champ Award in 2019, then I was elected to the board. As I'm getting around more people across the state that's been doing some of it, this kind of thing, we're just learn off of each other and I learn something new every year that I bring back to the farm and try whether I go to national no-till, which I went one year and then we've had some guys go and report back and in our own conference and different people I've learned to know.
I know I've seen Rick Clark in your magazine, I've met him personally and taking some things he's done and you're just constantly learning from people you get to rub elbows with and that's what helps us because I think it is a new venture. It's kind of a new wave in farming and I don't know that we understand it all yet, and I don't know if we ever will, but I know what it can do. It's just amazing what you see happen when you start building soil health.
Mackane Vogel:Fast forward almost 15 years now that you've been no-till, and I guess what kind of differences do you see with your soil now versus then? Are you soil testing or is it more of something you're seeing with your yields or I guess what kind of differences can you see in your farm now?
Doug Fifer:Many differences. I didn't start from too bad. I have a shallow soil for one thing. I have a fragipan at two feet on about 50% and three feet on the other. 50% of it topsoil eight to 10 inches deep, but I've seen my soil get more water. I used to have little places that would just little swells. I'm fairly flat on this particular farm. We're not flat in this area by no means, but my farm, my home farm in particular, I have some rented ground that's not, but it's fairly flat, but just little swells you could see would hold water through the winter. I remember growing up and seeing that we don't see that anymore. The water, it permeates better. I've gotten my organic matter built to as much as I can in my sandy home soil. What I'm seeing now over the last several years, my what I call my sponge effect, the organic matter sponge effect is going deeper.
Six years ago, maybe it was an inch deep. I just pulled an inch-by-inch stratification study I conducted on my own recently and I was down three inches. I see that level going deeper. Earthworm population has massively increased. I mean, I have just a tremendous amount of earthworms, so till just walking on, it just feels so much different. I always take my own soil samples. I can remember back in the times of plowing, you could hardly get it in the ground unless probe in the ground, unless it was wet. Now, I can take one arm and I don't even have to hardly stand on it to push it in the ground. It is just amazing difference. I can see I'm getting on the ground at a wetter time that I used to be able to without marking it up. I mean, my litter spreader guy told me called me this year and he said, "I'm going through places with this much moisture that I wouldn't have gone through with you 10 years prior," so he's seen that difference in that aspect.
I've been able to reduce chemical use. Sometimes almost not totally zero maybe to terminate the crop, but if I have a good enough stand of cover crop, no residual chemicals at all on corn the whole season, no insecticide. I haven't used insecticide here on the home farm for six years. I'm just seeing the natural insect life, the predator insects that maybe will eat the invasive ones we have. My slug, everybody's saying, "You're building a perfect atmosphere for slugs. I don't want to try that." I'm not seeing a slug problem. I have them, but I'm not killing my spiders, which are killing the slugs, which are eating the slugs. I'm trying to keep that balance like Rick Clark says, have that balance. If we spray insecticide and we kill the predator, the spiders and the things that's eating the bad bugs, well then we have nothing to eat those, so then we are dependent on the insecticide.
Crop rotation is what I'm using and cover crops, and so I've been able to build a good insect life there that's taken care of those predators, not using insecticide, less chemicals. I've also seen the last couple of years really doing some studies I've done with a drone. We went in and after PSNT, I use poultry later because I'm growing poultry by my nutrient management about two times per acre a year. We've done everything the same. I've put 30 pounds in the row at the planter of nitrogen and that's all I have had to buy and getting better yields. In the last several years, we've done some studies where we've done repetition. I'm talking like nine acres, plots. I don't do just a small area. This past year we was dry. Our state average on corn was 114, and this particular field that I've done this nitrogen study in, done 215, neighboring farms, just listening to him talk that's not in the no-till region was 100 bushel behind me.
I'm not knocking that, I'm just saying I'm just uplifting the no-till regent. I rolled down vetch and clover after we had terminated the cereal grain out of it earlier, and then I just rolled vetch and clover. The other thing we seen when we'd done this nitrogen study, we'd done everything the same for the crop except when we done went back over the top top dressing, it was calling for like 80 pounds basically by PSNT. I haven't followed that too well for several years. I've just kind of learned where to be with my organic matter and what cover crop I may have, how good the legume is. We did 0, 50, 100 with the drone and that nine acre three repetitions, a little over 1,000 feet across the field, there was, just to give you a difference there, the zero still did 213, the 50 did 215, and the 100 did 212. We see no response in commercial fertilizer over top. It just tells me my soil biology is feeding my crop.
Mackane Vogel:That's really interesting. I want talk a little bit more about the role of cover crops on your farm and how that's evolved throughout your farming career. What cover crops have you found the most success with recently and are you using multi-species mixes or are these monocultures? What have you found works for you in your region?
Doug Fifer:In the beginning, I was using mostly a barley or a wheat with Austrian winter pea. We was finding very marginal success with that. Then I started using maybe a barley or wheat with vetch and a crimson clover. As late as I am, late October, early November in my growing zone, I've had the crimson clover be successful two of the five years that I've tried to use that and I knew I was late when I was putting it out. I just thought we would try. The vetch always came on, but that late in the fall, it would be pretty small over the winter, not quite the aggression that I wanted. I want a little more, I don't want it aggressive, but I want little, I want to see a green carpet.
Of recent years I've been using the small grain with a vetch. I've used the AU Merit vetch, which they've gotten it. It's a hairy vetch, but it'll bloom about two weeks sooner than just a straight hairy vetch. Auburn University worked on that to get it to bloom a little sooner, and the clover. I've had some, mostly the vetch usually does make it'll come on good in the spring and that's been fine. Still not good enough to suit me. This past two years, we tried a drone and we put in some annual rye grass. We coated about 40% of it so it could spread a little better, lighter than the vetch that I was using. Then we tried a balansa clover because it's a smaller seed so I could get more acres per payload with a drone. We've had two dry years and I had maybe 50% success last year, the previous crop year, and then this past year, it doesn't look really good, but I'm not faulting the drone.
It was the weather factors. We was very dry November, December. We had one hurricane rain that come through, but we felt like that was too much rain and we felt the seed rotted. Again, it's not a perfect tool, but I think it still can be okay, but I think all the stars have to align for it to work well. This upcoming year, I have two small tracks that I want to harvest the wheat. Soybeans, double cropping wheat for me in my region, double cropping soybeans after wheat, I'm just a little very tight on the margin. If I get east of the Blue Ridge, more eastern part of the state, they can get by with it easier than we can. I've been doing barley with double crop beans, so I'm going to try now going back to some wheat. I'm going two fields and then we're going to use a multi-mix.
It's called King Agra has it. It's called Maze Pro. It's got, I think it's nine, 10 different species in it, summer annuals and winter annuals. I'm going to try that this year and some of the research I've been reading from that, seeing as much as a 20-yield, 20-a-bushel acre boost after that. I think I'm going to go, I'm going to try that right this year and just see how I like and get back to more the grain drill success of putting the crop in and just tweaking my rotation a little bit. That's just kind of my next level for me here at my farm, and that's where you get into it is just like me from this part of the valley to the eastern part of the state, they just have a little different, they're in group zone seven, I'm in zone six, so they got about a 10 degree different and a little bit earlier spring and later fall. You just kind of got to see what works for you and your area and I'm still tweaking that. I'm pretty excited about that next level. Move there and see how that does for me.
Mackane Vogel:Awesome. Yeah, we'll have to maybe we'll check back in with you towards the end of the summer and see how that went for you.
We'll come back to the episode in a moment, but first, I'd like to thank our sponsor, Sound Agriculture for supporting today's podcast. Did you know you can build a water and nutrient superhighway in your soil? You just need the maximum Acre solution from Sound Agriculture. The easiest way to maximize your crop's access to nutrients all season long. First, source turns your soil into a nutrient factory. Then Blueprint builds the delivery network by expanding the crop's reach beyond the roots. For the maximum acre solution that provides bigger, healthier crops. Source it with Blueprint. Talk to your dealer or visit Sound.ad. Now, let's get back to the discussion with Doug Fifer.
You've done a lot of different trials from what I was reading on your farm over the years. I think I was reading sometime around 2019 or 2020 you'd experimented a little bit with planting green and roller crimpers and that kind of stuff. I think you mentioned you're still using a roller on your farm now. I guess tell us what you learned from that trial back then. Planting green and if you're still doing any of that or where you're at with that now.
Doug Fifer:That was my first year planting green and had some challenges, at first. A little hair pinning. I wasn't using row planters and still learning, still trying to navigate that, just what I wanted to do. Now I've since went to a different planter. I'm using row cleaners and I've learned from another one of those guys that I've rubbed the elbows with. It's probably had 10 more years experience me few years older than myself and he started taking out his cereals in early April. Especially if you're doing annual rye grass, you want to do this with Calethanum, it's another pass, but taking out that you're getting the benefit of that with your mix and then taking that out of the equation and then he doesn't roll. I've done a little study last year that I had one field that I rolled and one that I didn't and I still liked, you don't have to, but I still like matting that just getting that mat right to the ground and maybe help for some weed suppression.
Then when you have a dryer year, hopefully, what little bit of range you get, we get it packed to that. It's a mulch to help hold that moisture better and I just felt like the row cleaners performed a little better where I rolled it as to where I didn't. I felt like I got a little better job with my seed bed preparation there by doing that. I think someone who's not wanting to invest in the roller in that time, that would be a good option because you can plant through just that legume that are the vetch and clover easier than when you put the cereal wind with it. It's another set of problems.
Mackane Vogel:What other equipment, not just for cover crops necessarily, but what equipment on your farm would you say has been most crucial to your operation? I guess what's working really well? What couldn't you do without that you're using?
Doug Fifer:Really it's not, I mean, you hear a lot of talk about more specialized equipment, but my plan or my soil's gotten so mallow that I've taken no-till coulters off. I don't run a no-till coulter. I'm not slicing it. I know it's better to maybe knife in the nitrogen on the two-by-two. I've gone to just dribbling behind the row closer. I have some rocky areas, so it's just another thing there to make that planter just not ride as smooth. I think my planter, the way I have set up now is doing real well for me. I mean, I just have a row cleaners with row openers and the closing wheel and dribbling the nitrate out the back. I put auto steer on and I've put a hydraulic downforce, which really manages that even pressure. I'm not just guessing at where I have my spring set. I can watch my screen and it'll tell me if I'm too light or too heavy so I can watch how each row's doing. I'm really maintaining my pressures better. I think the planter and the roller because I will always roll. I just won't go away from that. I just think that's the key to conserving that moisture, holding weed pressure to try to use less chemicals.
I think those are the two things as far as planting crops and the corn, and I'm going to go next year, I'm going to actually start rolling my first year to roll some rye and maybe to put some buckwheat in the spring at freeze and thaw and roll that and plant soybeans into roll down, which I haven't done before. I've been generally doing that after harvesting a wheat or a barley. I'm just going in the old dry straw stubble, but I'm going to change that program to incorporate that. We was talking about after wheat, so I'm going to try a cereal rye after corn and I'm even getting ready to change drills to where I'm taking off my no-till coulters on my drill. I just want that seed opener. I'm trying to have the least disturbance as possible to not disturb my earthworms. It's working, doing so much workforce. I think that's the key is just being able to plant with a drill, not disturbing that soil and my planter and having it set up the way I do, but I've just found that I've been able to take 10 plus years ago, I couldn't have taken the no-till coulters off, and that's just where my soil has gotten so much more mallow that I can do that.
Mackane Vogel:Well, that's awesome to hear. Yeah, I think if you're listening, you're maybe earlier on in your stages of switching to no-till. This is something that maybe you can look forward to down the road. You've mentioned a little bit about dealing with a lot of dryness in your region. Would you say that it's more common you guys deal with drought than overly wet years in your part of the country?
Doug Fifer:The wettest year I can remember was 2018 and I had two farmers in the area that were 90, they've since passed away, but they were in their nineties at that time. They lived to be very old and a good ripe age and they said they have never seen a season stay wet as long as we did. We haven't had, of course we don't want that kind of a year, but that was an extreme in '18. The last two years we've been dryer than normal and what I've noticed in my 62 years, 63, I remember growing up as a young boy, we would have thunderstorms a couple times, two or three times a week every summer. It was hard to make hay, but we don't see that anymore. I don't think we had two or three thunderstorms all season last year. The last couple of years, it's just a little different pattern.
It seems like we get a lot of rain or then no rain. We might get ... May one, we had four and four to six inches of rain right here in my little area. Then we didn't get any more, just a couple inches each month till Hurricane Debbie come through in second week of August, we had between eight and nine inches there. We're getting those deluge of rains and then no rain, it's timing. Our yearly average was close to three bushel the same. It's just we wasn't getting it at the good times. When it did rain, the one in May, it was dumping out of a bucket. I think I held more on my type of soil than a lot did that's not into these practices, but still it just came too hard, too fast and you just couldn't retain all of it.
I think that's the biggest thing I've seen and I've seen that the later crops planting a little bit later, people get so antsy now April 20th, they just got to get that planter going and I'm finding that if I go to the second week, even the third, I don't like to get past that, but I'm growing as good if not better crops. I think we're seeing those later rains as the hurricane starting to fall, especially with soybeans, the later seems to be doing better. You just have to pay attention to what's happening with the weather on average for you too. The changing pattern. Back when I was growing up, that would've been a whole different scenario.
Mackane Vogel:Yeah. Well, and it sounds like being no-till and utilizing cover crops to try and retain moisture and that sort of thing, you're at at least a little bit of an advantage over maybe some of the conventional growers in the area. I want to shift gears a little bit to talk about Virginia No-Till Alliance and you're the president of this organization. Talk a little bit about, I know you guys just had the winter meeting, what's coming up soon and what's the overall goal look like of trying to get other farmers on board in the area to switch to no-till and adopt practices like cover crops and that sort of thing?
Doug Fifer:Yeah, what we want to do is each of us in the group are seeing, we had such a challenge with cover crops this year. I was hoping even on my farm with this annual progress this year, we would dig a soil pit. We still may, I have one little area, but that done well. We still may just to see that effect. We're just kind of playing it by ear to see what we have. That's what we look for beyond our main conference once a year is just any of those chances to go to a farm and have a field day. One of our board members had one here right before our conference and they had some black oats and a couple different things they was wanting to showcase. It was just a smaller type group in his area. We're constantly just looking for those kind of events where we actually have actual practices out there that we can invite local farmers too.
We work close with Extension and put out to those guys and we work well with them, and the local NRCS. We have done some chat and choose. We don't have any schedule at the moment. What we call is just like in the wintertime when the snow's blowing like today, we'd call in maybe 10, 15 farmers in the area and we'd just sit down and talk about what I'm seeing on my farm. They've went very well because people maybe don't want to speak in front of 300 people, but you get them in a group. The first one I know we had planned at my farm a couple years ago. We had planned to lunch and two o'clock people were still talking and I believe we could have talked till midnight probably. It was just exciting. It was just good. It was a really good meeting, a lot of interaction and a lot of learning.
The mentoring that we're trying to do, any of us that's been into these practices and feels comfortable, I'm probably working with about 15 young gentlemen right now that's in the early years of farming and working with those. I might even meet them on their farm or they'll call me and ask questions. I mean, if I can talk, I mean, usually I might be planting corn and they're talking, I'm still planting corn and got a Bluetooth in my ear and we talk about cover crops for an hour.
We don't really have too many big things lined up at the moment, but we're going to meet next week, a board meeting, so we'll look and see if anybody has anything on their farm that maybe we can pull together a meeting real quick. I think we just try to do more of those small things throughout the year as we see an opportunity to show someone hands-on, like I say, digging a soil pit and get down in there and just see where that root is. Then a meeting with a picture on the wall. Any opportunity we can get to try to pull farmers together and show them what no-till and cover crops and regenerative ag is all about, we'll do it.
Mackane Vogel:Absolutely. Yeah, that's absolutely true. I think you nailed it though. Some of those smaller meetings can be just really invaluable resources for farmers and we all know how great field days can be too. There's nothing better than really getting up close seeing it for yourself. I want to end on this note and just ask you what advice you might give somebody who is maybe a little apprehensive thinking about doing no-till or cover crops, but just hasn't quite pulled the trigger yet. What might you say to them to encourage them to come on over to the regenerative ag side?
Doug Fifer:Well, I think this is kind of from Rick Clark. If you're not being a little uncomfortable, you're not trying hard enough to change. I've heard him make that comment and it is a little uncomfortable. I mean, I've had some nights the first year that I went to roll, I couldn't sleep. My wife said, "Well, you've made this mess, now you're going to have to deal with it." I said, well, and it worked out great. I was stressed about nothing. It just worked fine. It had its issues, but I was very stressed out more than I needed to be. Talk to folks like us that's done it and learn from our mistakes, so you don't try to make those same mistakes and be willing to change. I tell people, "You don't have to do it all. Maybe try a portion of a farm, maybe a problem field or something."
The other thing you got to have in mind, it's a commitment. It's not something we just do this fall. Say I called the local fertilizer dealer and I spread something this fall and next spring and I'm going to see the results. It takes time. Five to 10 years roughly, depending on where you're starting from and how aggressive you are. It is a commitment and it takes time. I think that's the hardest sell too. Just realize that it's not going to happen overnight to build it back, but when you get there, you will be glad you're there. I really go back to the results that I'm seeing on a dry year and what I'm seeing with my nitrogen reduction. Then the other thing too, I don't want the ag suppliers to realize you're not really eliminating. You're kind of substituting, maybe I'm not buying as much synthetic fertilizer, but I'm using more cover crops more readily.
You have to have everything in play. Just think about the four basics. No till or very minimal till and rotating crops is very important part of it. Keeping the ground covered like with your combine after your corn stalks, if you can scatter them good, your soybean fodder, and then just maximize with diversity. A live plant is the most potent tool we have to build soil health, so as soon as you can get another plant back in there for the winter. Because we're capturing the sun, even if it's this time of year, we're still capturing sun if we got a little plant there to catch it. Just be willing to get out there and give it a try and you'll be very pleased. I can testify. I'm really thankful these last two dry years and lower commodity prices and higher, some input prices that I'm where I'm at. It's just a testament to, it is part of survival and we've been able to adapt and I'm better able to survive those challenges we've had.
Mackane Vogel:All right, well, fantastic. Just want to thank you, again, for joining us today and we'll be in touch in the future to hear how some of those trials are going on your farm.
Doug Fifer:Okay. Well, thanks for having me and I'm always glad to talk about it. I just love for people to be able to know what this can do for you.
Mackane Vogel:That's it for this episode of the Cover Crop Strategies Podcast. Thanks to today's guest, Doug Fifer, and thanks as always to our sponsor, Sound Agriculture, for helping to make this podcast series possible. A transcript of this episode and our archive of previous podcast episodes are both available at covercropstrategies.com/podcasts. For our entire staff here at Cover Crop Strategies, I'm Mackane Vogel. Thanks for listening and have a great day.
